Episode 270 Transcript:

[00:00:00] This is a thought provoking episode and I’m gonna keep this short and to the point, but I hope that you leave this with a different mindset and a different perspective on your strength and your development areas.

Let’s dive in.

Here are the two questions. This podcast answers. One, how do you successfully transition into your first official leadership role? And two, how do you keep climbing that leadership ladder and continuously get promoted, 

although the competition and the expectations get bigger. This show with The Manager Track podcast will provide the answers. I’m your host, Ramona Shaw. 

I’m on a mission to create workplaces where work is seen as a source of contribution, connection and personal fulfillment. And this transition starts with developing a new generation of leaders who know how to lead. So everyone wins and gross. In the show, you’ll learn how to think, communicate and act as a confident and competent leader. 

You know, you can be.

Welcome to this episode of The Manager Track podcast. Let’s start off [00:01:00] with this. I encourage you to think about the last time you were absolutely completely unshakably certain about something.

Maybe it was a business decision, a decision about your team, a hiring choice, a strategy you are convinced would work. You had all the data. You had a really good gut instinct. You were sure you were right.

You were absolutely certain that your assessment was right. Remember a situation like this, and if you’re honest, we can all think back at least one, maybe the last 24 hours last week. What was one of those situations?

But then. Maybe you can also recall a situation when you thought exactly that and it felt just like that moment recently when you knew, now I know what I’m doing. I know what needs to happen here. I have the answer for sure. But then you learned later on that actually you weren’t, you were [00:02:00] wrong. What I noticed after years of working with leaders and being an executive and a leadership coach for eight years now, the thing that makes us feel most secure, our certainty, our expertise, our ability to know the right answer, is often the very thing that limits our growth, our impact, and our ability to see what’s actually possible.

Now, I’m not saying that every time, you’re right, this is also the thing that we need to talk about here and to investigate, but if we were to look at these two data sets, it’s a pretty strongly overlapping vin diagram.

So today we’re gonna talk about the limit that certainty builds around our thinking and about why the leaders who make the biggest breakthroughs in their careers aren’t the ones who have [00:03:00] all the answers, but are the ones who are brave enough, curious enough, self-aware enough to question even their strongest convictions.

So if you ever felt like you’ve plateaued, like you’re playing it safe or you’re comfortable or you feel like you’ve done as much as possible, know that there is something beyond your reach.

Not far out, but right there. And this is the conversation I wanna have today, um, because I think we all need to remind ourselves of this and reflect on exactly this idea. That it’s what we are most convinced of, what we feel we are most certain about, most right About is often the exact thing that’s holding us back.

And it can be from small things like I remember, working in an environment that was very performance driven. Long working hours. Your job was kind of your life and. I [00:04:00] remember a very senior leader walking into the office at seven o’clock at night, and I was still working with a few other people and he said, my gosh, I can’t believe, why is this office almost empty?

Where is everyone? It’s only seven o’clock. There was this idea that if you are not there at seven o’clock, and trust me, he knew exactly who was still at the table and who has left that you just. Couldn’t keep up, you couldn’t get the promotion in. And I was so certain that that was how this culture was and that was the only path forward to only find out about three months later that there was a colleague among us who was being really impactful, really valuable to the team already gone through a number of promotions and on a strong path forward to be really successful in this organization. And they had a pretty balanced work life, so to speak. They weren’t there at seven o’clock. They took [00:05:00] long breaks. They were having an outside life that was pretty significant, like they were doing other things.

That took up a lot of time and they made that work and it was never an issue. And I remember hearing this and thinking, oh my gosh, this entire time I thought there was only one way to progress in this organization. And if you weren’t doing it that way, it would be a dead end. And suddenly I see this other person proving me wrong, proving the exact opposite, and.

In that moment, I realized that the idea that there was only one way forward was the thing that was totally limiting me. And that’s just one example, one that pops into my mind when I think of this concept. But it happens to us all the time, and I hear it in coaching conversations as much as I hear it in my own head.

Let’s dive in and look at this a little bit more closely. Something that most of us don’t want to OMI is that we’re really, really [00:06:00] keen to being right. We’re patterned to wanna be right, not in an arrogant way. Although sometimes that does happen and it turns out to be arrogant, but in most cases it’s a survival instinct.

It’s our brains literally wired to seek certainty because uncertainty feels dangerous. So we collect a whole bunch of evidence for what we already believe. We hear this when we talk about confirmation bias and biases overall. We also surround ourselves with people who think. Like us, we read the articles that confirm our existing opinions, outside of our work life, we see this unfold on social media or even the TV channels that we watch, or the news channels or the news outlets that we, that we read.

How does it feel to read a piece that confirms our existing opinion versus how does it feel to read a [00:07:00] piece that takes on the opposing view to our opinion. The two don’t feel the same way, and we don’t read it with the same attitude, the same approach.

But it’s really interesting to observe yourself doing it, to watch politically opposing news channels and hearing the stories and seeing how they resonate differently with you. And to notice how these biases start kicking in and then question and really challenging those. But in the leadership world specifically here, breaking it down to our day-to-day interactions and why this matters, if we think about our leadership development and our growth, it’s that we are almost building like a boundary, a limit around us and our, and around our thinking.

Imagine you are standing in a house and you are in a room and you are seeing walls around you. These seem like pretty set walls like I can’t see on the other side of the wall. And then [00:08:00] suddenly some other person comes into the room and they have a device on their glasses.

I. You know, it’s probably a bit fictional, but probably not too far out. Their devices would let them see through walls. It would be, they would be able to pick up, um, on heat radar. They would be able to pick up on big objects on the other side of the wall. They can see what’s out there while you are staring at a white blank wall and.

This is the limit we expose ourselves to. And suddenly the other person would say like, oh, someone is approaching. And you’d be like, how do you know? Well, my glasses see behind the wall. Like, what? How is that possible? We don’t even consider that such a thing exists that we could see through walls.

And that is kind of what happens when we think we are so right. It’s like we are so right. There’s no other way. There’s no, there’s no other side of the wall that I could see. I can only see the wall and so because of that, [00:09:00] again, the survival instinct, that is the certainty that a wall actually gives me some certainty.

Protects me, knows I know now I am safe. This is the room, this is the wall. This is the zone that I operate in. Those are patterns that I recognize and hence they guide my decisions.

So we learn to operate within the boundaries of what we already know, what we are already comfortable with, with what we’re already convinced is true. And here’s the thing about those walls, they work so well that eventually we forget that they’re there and that there are walls and there would be something on the other side.

We believe that this is just all there is. That’s all the space we have. We don’t see doors or we don’t assume that I could walk through a door and go to a different room. Imagine if this was just the space to operate in, like in work, at work, for example, at work. This may look like you think this is the scope of work that we as a team do [00:10:00] and should be doing, and then anything outside of that?

No, these are, that’s behind the wall. That’s not ours. Or that has nothing to do with us, or we can’t touch that, or some other reason why that’s on the other side of the wall and not within this room. So we start to believe that this area is what we’re comfortable with, that this is the entire scope of work or scope of responsibility or scope of influence that we have another example. It could be an executive who’s convinced that their industry just works this way. That’s how it’s done. Or the manager who knows their team isn’t ready for more responsibility, or the one who says, no, we’re at capacity.

We can’t take on more. My team is burned out. Um, they’re, they’re stressed. I can’t delegate. And you really, truly believe that you can’t delegate because they’re stressed out, overwhelmed, overworked, at capacity. And we take that for granted. Now. [00:11:00] We base all our decisions on what we delegate, how much work we take on, what we say yes to.

We say no to all. That is now dependent on this one belief that we think the team just cannot take more work on. And now, I don’t wanna say that’s not per se true, but we form that belief once maybe we have a couple of weeks of evidence and then that becomes sort of the norm. It can also be the thing that we then communicate to other people.

Suddenly our manager won’t ask us for help, won’t open up new opportunities or introduce us to a new project group that would actually advance our career. ’cause they think, you know what? They seem stressed out, the team seem stressed out. There’s no capacity. So we start to form these beliefs, these walls.

Or the founder who’s certain that they understand the customer’s needs. They know what the customer wants. Now, they’re not necessarily wrong, , but again, they’re often the incomplete beliefs that we’ve never bothered to test in the startup world where there’s a lot of talk around the product [00:12:00] market fit, leaders have to constantly challenge these assumptions and like, is this truly what people want?

And if they want it, will they pay for it? And then what exactly, what are the exact features that they really need? Just because I heard it from two people, does that actually mean everyone feels this way? And if we don’t realize that we are making these assumptions and form these beliefs, set up these walls, we can quickly find ourselves down a rabbit hole and then not get anywhere.

Now, for some leaders, it can also be that we become really good, we get promoted, we get good performance reviews, and then that actually turns into the problem.

This competence, confidence, the quiet certainty that comes from knowing you can handle whatever comes your way. Like we learn the rules of success in our organizations. We know how to navigate the politics, deliver results, manage up and down effectively. We know how to lead, but then unconsciously, again, we’re building up this wall, [00:13:00] this boundary around our leadership.

Because we know what worked so far, we keep doing what worked. We know what our team can handle. So we never push beyond that. We know what projects were realistic, so we stopped proposing anything that felt like a stretch or counterintuitive based on that initial belief. And in many cases we might be right about that, but we totally miss. Those outliers, those ideas, that would be great. If only we didn’t have that wall. We didn’t have that boundary there, but because we have it there, we don’t even give it airtime you might notice this. When you have new change, you’re like, great, fresh set of eyes.

Give me all the feedback. And then they give you the feedback and immediately it’s like, doesn’t work. Won’t work. Tried before, didn’t go well. Can imagine my boss signing off on this. No way we’ll get funding for that immediately. It’s all the nos, all the things that you think you know for sure.

[00:14:00] So the question that you can ask yourself is very simple. What if everything you know about what’s possible here is just an idea. It’s not the truth. It’s not a fact. It’s just an idea.

It’s just an opinion.

Another question you can ask is, what if I’m wrong about this? Or what if there’s something I’m not seeing? Who could I ask that might see something I’m not seeing? If someone makes a, a proposal, or a suggestion and you think that is so out there, no, no way.

Instead of just shutting it down, ask them based on what are you making this suggestion? What have you considered in the process? What kind of limits or conditions need to be in place for this to work out? Like ask more? ’cause you might actually learn that their way of thinking is different and that there’s something where you see it as a requirement or a limit that they don’t have, and this [00:15:00] is why they made that suggestion.

This is assuming that they know sort of the profession or the industry to a degree, and that you think that they’re capable. But when those people capable people know the industry, know the profession, they bring up suggestions that we just like, what, where is this coming from? That is a signal that you might have one of those limits, one of those walls build up that someone else can’t see.

So the leaders who continue to elevate and to challenge themselves aren’t the ones with the most certainty. They aren’t the ones who say like, I know I’m great at this. I know I’m right at this. I know how it’s done. I have the answers. No, it’s the ones with the most curiosity about their own blind spots.

It’s the ones who never really think, oh, I’m just good enough. Or, I know for, for a fact. They’re the ones who. Here’s something that doesn’t sit well with them or doesn’t seem to make sense, and instead of shutting it out, they’re asking about this wall again, when they think that they’re good at it, that they already know [00:16:00] how it all works, that they’re already great at presenting to executives or that they don’t need any leadership training or don’t need any coaching because they’re fine.

Those are usually the moments where we need to say like. Okay. And what have you recently challenged yourself on? What’s a belief? You’ve actually recently changed. What is something, a topic where someone else convinced you of the counter opinion about this? And if you can’t answer any of those questions, you don’t know when that was ’cause it’s been too long, it’s likely that you’re not getting into this practice enough to really challenge yourself.

I notice this myself too. It’s easy. It’s so much more comfortable to just go with what we know and with that certainty. And then we find ourselves in the cycle of just keeping doing the same thing. And the only thing that usually gets us out is either we could confront it with a fact that we just can’t, we we can’t seem to make it work and fit it into our current mental [00:17:00] model.

So we are forced to challenge it. Someone else gives us feedback on it, or we actually do this ourselves. You don’t wait for someone else to present it to us, but we are the ones who develop this mindset of constantly challenging ourselves.

So I hope that this idea that where you think you are most right about where you’re most convinced about might actually be the thing that unlocks that next level of growth for you. And how changing your mindset about being right away from judgment into curiosity can change the way that you, not just lead yourself and grow as a leader, but also the kind of culture and tone that you set with your team.

Um, I hope this was short as promised and to the point and, uh, sparked some thoughts for you and was food for thought. And if it resonated, please share it along with other coworkers or with your team and have a discussion about this. It’s always great to not just absorb it. And consume it. But to have an outlet, a way to digest process, [00:18:00] and use the information such as with this podcast.

And that’s all for today. Thanks so much for tuning in. I’ll see you again next week. Bye for now.

If you enjoy this episode, then check out two other awesome resources to help you become a leader. People love to work with. This includes a free master class on how to successfully lead as a new manager. Check it out  @Archova.org/masterclass. 

The second resource is my best-selling book, the confident and competent new manager, how to quickly rise to success in your first leadership role. Check it out at archova.org/books or head on over to Amazon and grab your copy there.