Episode 272 Transcript:

This is episode 272, and we’re going to spend some time on talking about the traits that underlie human behaviors, specifically in the workplace and specifically among leaders, so that you not only understand your patterns a bit better, but you’re also able to pick up.

Why your colleagues or your bosses do what they do, what is driving them, and by understanding that better, you start to be able to navigate it better, but also have more compassion and understanding for their drivers. This is an episode focused on psychology. In particular, what we have learned from NI two.

Here are the two questions. This podcast answers. One, how do you successfully transition into your first official leadership role? And two, how do you keep climbing that leadership ladder and continuously get promoted, 

although the competition and the expectations get bigger. This show with  The Manager Track podcast will provide the answers. I’m your host, Ramona Shaw. 

I’m on a mission to create workplaces where work is seen as a source of contribution, connection and personal fulfillment. And this transition starts with developing a new generation of leaders who know how to lead. So everyone wins and gross. In the show, you’ll learn how to think, communicate and act as a confident and competent leader. 

You know, you can be. 

Welcome to this episode of The Manager Track podcast. I wanted to record this because I think oftentimes in leadership particular, we talk about sort of different skills and competencies, but so much of what’s happening in a workplace is dependent and influenced by our relationships. We have people, problems or problems are all coming from relationships and from direct communication, collaboration, or the needs that we have internally to feel superior.

Or when we do feel inferior to someone, how then that determines or dictates how we show up. And in this episode, I wanna share some of this information so that you can better understand and feel better equipped to reach people and understand where they’re coming from.

We’re going to answer a couple of specific questions. First, how do you see past the surface of what’s really driving some one’s behavior? And second, how do you use that understanding to build better relationships and navigate those social situations more effectively?

With that said, let us dive in. I will walk through a set of insights on how people really work beneath all the masks and performances. So fair warning, some of these insights or what we call psychological truth might feel uncomfortable because they do shine a light on things we rarely acknowledge.

But if you ever wondered why some people drain your energy while others energize you or why certain conversations feel inauthentic or not genuine while others feel real and you feel connected, then these insights will help you understand the difference.

Okay, I think I gave enough of a warning. So let’s do this. The first one is that most of us are wearing a mask. We wear that mask. Because it’s a tool for survival, not because we’re fake, but because we are scared. And it sounds a little odd, but there is this survival instinct that’s still influencing us or driving us pretty strongly in many different ways.

And that. Instinct or that survival drive is determined to keep us alive. And it is fueled by fear to die. Fear of threat. And by the way, what we know from neuroscience is that when we are exposed to physical threat, the same areas in our brains respond as the, when we are exposed to social threat.

So in a relationship when we feel someone is threatening our status or our reputation. Or is questioning our skill, then the things that get activated in our brain coincide and what gets activated when we are exposed to those physical threats. And that’s important to know because then we understand why sometimes we are react out of fear and we might not know it because our brain is really good at covering up what’s truly going on so that everything we think.

And then do seems rational or seems logical or even seems justified. Like that’s what everyone should do and that’s what I needed to do because they were disrespectful and those are the things we gotta challenge. There’s huge growth and understanding where those things play into our behavior. And what would be more effective approaches, what would be approaches that lead to better results, not just what feels.

Justify or feels right in the moment based on our emotions covered up or explained away by our rational brain.

Now let me talk a little bit more about that mask. Think about it this way, from the moment we are kids, we learn that certain versions of ourselves, they get love, they get approval, they get acceptance while other parts get rejected or criticized. So if we show up a certain way. We know this is gonna lead to a reward to love.

And then if you show up a different way, that doesn’t fly so well. And so we create these sort of curated versions of ourselves. The social version of us, the professional version of us, the family version of us some of you, the social media version of, of us. And these are all masks we put on, and it’s not.

Inauthentic. It’s something that the vast majority of us do as part of our effort to belong. When as social creatures, when we worry about being excluded from the tribe, then our survival is actually at stake. When there was like, think back to stone h when someone was rejected from the group or left behind, the chances of that person dying was fairly high.

If not at a hundred percent the most successful way for humans to survive was in tribes, in family construct, in communities. That is how we prospered and evolved. And so knowing that if we get. Rejected. Now I’m actually feeling threatened. And so our ability to develop these masks and for us to get really good at presenting those is a way to make sure that we are part of that social construct, and that is totally okay.

There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just important that we recognize what is happening. Why we might be putting on this mask versus another one. And when we work with other people, it’s interesting to pay attention to the masks that they’re wearing and developing the sense of curiosity, but also compassion, that there’s a lot more going on behind that mask that we may not see.

Now. So often we might detect a bit of a crack in that mask. So if someone gets really tense or gets uncomfortable or they get defensive, that is usually not the mask talking, that is usually sort of their authentic self trying to break through.

So the tension in itself, or their reaction in itself is actually useful information. I remember being in a meeting once where a colleague kept insisting that everything was totally fine with, with a project that we were talking about. But many of us in the room could tell that their voice was getting tighter and tighter every time.

They sort of said it was fine, and every time they had to answer a question, we could tell like there was something going on. They got tense. They started to get annoyed by the questions they wanted to quickly move on. They were getting really short in their responses when that wasn’t their typical style of communicating.

And you know, after that conversation, people picked up on it and different people, including myself, went back to double check and to have side conversations and to talk to this person directly and say like, Hey, let me see this.

Or, can I have a look at that? Or Can I be part of a meeting? So then through all this, we realized how much in the backend was actually not working. So the tension in itself was actually that part that was trying to tell the real story, but they were overwhelmed and they were afraid to admit it.

They didn’t know. How to handle such a situation. And they thought that if they just persevered a little bit longer and try to keep it up, that ultimately they’d be able to figure this out when the best way forward would’ve been to authentically come forward and say, I am struggling and I need some help.

Which then, you know, people would have happily provided. ’cause a lot of what happened was actually outside of their control. Now, this is the first one. This is really important. When you do see tension or someone reacting really strongly, that seems off, it seems like too much based on what you have expected.

That is a really good indication that there’s just more going on than what meets the eye.

Now the second insight I wanna share also a game changer is that what someone hates in others often reveals what they’re hiding in themselves. So we call this projection, and once you understand it, you’ll start seeing it in all kinds of places, in all kinds of conversations.

So the person who constantly mocks people for being arrogant, they may wrestle with their own insecurities about not being good enough.

The one who calls out other people for being fake, they’re likely struggling with their own authenticity. It’s a bit like we’re walking around with a mirror, but we don’t quite realize that what we’re looking at in the outside world is actually us looking at ourselves in the mirror.

So in the media, for example, especially around politics, you might have heard people say accusations are confessions. And this statement is really based on this psychological insight that we see in others, what we are internally occupied with. Another example sort of to make that point is that if you feel you don’t have enough money, you might see everyone spending.

If you think you don’t dress well enough, you start to see all the well dressed people and those who are not concerned with the money or the clothes or how they look, they don’t notice it nearly as much. If you are worried about losing hair or wrinkles or whatever that may be for you, you now start to pay attention to bold people or people with a full head of hair, or people who seem to have really great skin.

Other people who are not worried, concerned about wrinkles at all or being bold, they don’t pay attention to that. They won’t notice it, and hence they won’t talk about it. So the people who do point out in others certain traits are people who are internally likely occupied with exactly that thing. So, by the way, there’s never a hundred percent guarantee, but there’s just an increased probability and something to be curious about.

Then the third one that I wanna highlight here is something that you’ve probably heard before. It’s a term called virtue signaling. And that speaks to there being an excessive virtue that is actually disguised as vanity. So as a leader, you might have encountered this in the following situation. When people proclaim their ethics or constantly correct other people’s behaviors or position themselves as the moral authority in many of the different situations that they’re dealing with, or the ones who want everyone to know about their charitable giving or their inclusive hiring practices, or how much they sacrifice for the team.

They’re often ones preoccupied with this particular virtue because real integrity or real ethic doesn’t need a marketing campaign, right? It shows up consistently in small moments whether people are watching or not. I’ve seen executives who could deliver a beautiful speech about.

Caring for their people, but then they’re dismissive with their staff, their employees, or they’re impatient with anyone who couldn’t immediately grasp their vision. But on the outside, they consistently and continuously sort of highlight this, this virtue. But the virtue in itself is the public.

Presentation, not the private behavior.

And it is the private behavior that that tells you everything. Okay. Now let’s move on to the next one. I think we’re at number four now, and this is about why some of your team members may seem a bit hard to reach or hard to grasp. You feel like they’re telling you something, but.

Ah. It just doesn’t seem like that’s the full truth and it’s this. People don’t lie to you first. They lie to themselves. First those, Hey, I’m handling it fine. Responses when someone seems clearly overwhelmed or the, I don’t mind helping statements from people who resent having to carry other people’s loads.

They don’t mean to lie to you, they’ve told themselves these self-deception so many times that they actually believe it. They think that they need to be helping out. That’s what a team member does. Or they need to let people know that they’re fine. These are sort of social or ethical codes, and they’ve practiced this so many times that they don’t realize

that there actually is a bit of a disconnect, that what they’re presenting now is not the truth. It’s not ill intended. They don’t mean to lie to you or to present something to you that’s inaccurate. They may just. Feel like, no, this is what I’m supposed to be doing. This is like the right thing. I am fine.

It’s okay. But then internally resentment starts to grow and that then is often what either leads to disengagement, to conflict, or to people simply feeling like I’m fed up, I’m gonna leave. Even if in the front and what they’re showing you, you never really get to that. You never really hear that. So as a leader, for you to recognize these sort of self deceptions, help you create space for people to be honest about their struggles and being able to admit to you what they need without sort of lying to themselves.

This is a, this is a tricky one, but if you can. Pick up on it when someone does it, or if you can demonstrate what kind, what this authenticity actually looks like without undermining your leadership. Role with also you having to be someone who other people want to follow. Not a hundred percent of the time, but broadly speaking, as a leader, it’s a bit harder or tougher to find opportunities to share vulnerability, right, without sacrificing that confidence that people have.

There’s some key steps and, and key sort of principles to keep in mind. That is something for a different episode, but this is where you wanna pay attention to what are people actually saying and can I take that as face value or might there be some self decept deception happening when we create a safe space and we have people prompting us, then they may, may engage or may not.

You can control that, but you can influencing. The situation by establishing an environment where people wanna talk about it. I remember two situations where I was surprised of how willing I was to share sort of personal information when in fact I’m fairly a private person. But in one situation I was talking about making a career move and the, the person I was talking to said if I listen closely, it sounds like you.

Made a decision and I did not feel that I made a decision yet. My dece total self deception was, no, I’m still trying to figure this out, but the moment that that person said it to me, I realized, no, they’re right. I have made the decision. I’m just trying to. Justify it, explain it, involve people, make them feel like they’re part of my decision, or that there’s still a way to sort of change things around when in fact I’ve already made the decision.

The second example is when someone said to me I know you’re holding up like, and you know you’re doing well and you’re keeping up with, with the different projects, but I’m sensing there might be some frustration bubbling up and totally true. And I kept pretending like, no, I just persevere and it’s fine, and it’s okay. But deep down I realized like, yeah, no, I’m getting frustrated. This is. This is not what I was supposed to be doing.

I’m doing more than I should be doing. Other people aren’t carrying their, their weight. And I was starting to get frustrated, even though to the outside, I wanted to be present, this capable, competent leader. And when my boss said that to me at the time, I paused. And was able to say like, yeah, you’re, you’re actually right.

I think I’m starting to feel a little bit frustrated, the opening and this conditional phrasing of saying like, I might be wrong, but I have a hunch. Or I feel like there might be some frustration bubbling up. Would have totally given me the room to say like, no, actually everything is fine.

And I’m pretty sure my boss would’ve said like, oh, okay, let’s move on. But. Phrasing it that way was giving me an entry. It was like someone was opening the door and so like, Hey, welcome in. Like if you wanna come in, come in. And then I walked in the door and I was able to share, and we were actually able to sort things out and clarify stuff that I would have probably not left unaddressed.

And that frustration would’ve continued to grow. Okay, onto the next one. And I knew I was gonna lose track. I think we’re at number five, but I could be wrong here. So, okay. This is now about understanding power place. When someone feels in, when someone feels superior,

they’re often hiding inferiority. True self-confidence is quiet strength. It doesn’t need to prove itself. It doesn’t need to be the smartest voice in every meeting. Doesn’t need to remind people of past successes to validate those current decisions. Or to establish why they’re in the room or why they have a say or should have a voice.

But we’ve all worked with leaders who can’t stop talking about their achievements, their connections, their expertise. They may name drop constantly. They need to be consulted on every decision, and somehow ensure that no one can jeopardize or question their authority or role, and that is not true.

Self-confidence. That is sort of a projection of superiority, which to go back to what I said here a minute ago is stemming or often stemming from a true internal sense of inferiority. So in your organization, the most confident leaders are actually often the ones. Asking the best questions, acknowledging what they don’t know, elevating other people’s contributions while the insecure ones

are performing confidence in a very loud and almost obvious way. We often have like a gut instinct. We pick it up, but we are not quite sure what’s off here. What’s wrong? Now another one that I wanna talk about, let’s assume this is number six, is that when someone criticizes too much, it is often projection. So the constant criticism of others is a reflection of the critics, the person criticizing their own pain, their own self-judgment that they’re trying to disown, they’re trying to pass that on, or they’re trying to deal.

With the self-criticism or with the pain, and one strategy that they pursue is to criticize others. In the moment that they do that, they feel a little bit better. So they’re almost like their attention, their flashlight that they’re putting light on, moves from the flashlight looking at themselves and this dealing with the self-criticism to now it’s like moved away from their internal world to someone else, and that gives them a bit of a release.

So now they’re putting the flashlight. Someone else, they’re in the spotlight and it’s a moved away from their internal mess. Again, it feels like a relief, a temporary relief, but it’s really easy to spot in people’s behavior that there may be something going on. And when we understand this and we notice like someone really criticized a lot, I wonder, we don’t know for sure. We’re not psychoanalyst here and it’s really important to bear this in mind, but. If we even question where it might be coming from, it’s gonna increase our compassion, increase our curiosity, and our ability to truly listen and paying attention to what they’re saying and what might be going on below the surface.

And those simple sort of mindset shifts or perspectives will enable you to work with them more effectively. Without even fully understanding psychoanalyzing or diagnosing them. ’cause we can’t do that. We know, we don’t know for sure. We’re way more complex than sort of this clear correlation that we can draw between behavior and internal truth.

One more thing that goes hand in hand with this critic is that when we have people who seek a lot of control in the outer world, these could be the micromanagers or the people who have a really hard time with change, people who want to have things really organized or will quickly feel overwhelmed.

And so they wanna they, they sort of sometimes feel like, seem like they’re over-engineering or they’re. Over involved. And we wonder where that is coming from. And one of the sources, or one of the reasons for this is the fear from being exposed to inner chaos, not necessarily outta chaos.

They could manage outta chaos, but they worry that when things aren’t. Nicely done or neatly done, or if they don’t have full control or full oversight that it’s going to lead to inner chaos. The inner chaos in their experience is overwhelming, and at that point they can’t operate well. So a strategy that these people have developed often by the way, from like childhood experiences is to keep the outer world the things that they can control, really need and organized and being informed, and that gives them some safety or security that hate’s gonna be okay.

You do what you can control to ensure that this inner chaos doesn’t pop up.

And so before we wrap up, just a quick word on what I just mentioned with the childhood. It’s actually many of us, if not all of us, have patterns that we picked up in our childhood that we learned as, oh, here are strategies and how to ensure we’re part of the pact, that social construct, or that we know this is how I get rec recognition.

This is how I can contribute. This is what I get rewarded. This is what people appreciate, and we are wired to wanting to contribute in some way. And we learn these things as children in our family constructs and society. We pick this up in all different ways, and then as we grow older, we’re replicating these patterns.

This is almost like the software that we develop over time and then we run on that software. Unless. Something happens or we interject and we sort of reprogram it. But oftentimes in a workplace we see these patterns pop up that are very familiar patterns from when we grew up. It’s similar dynamics and.

Instead of shutting our eyes and pretending it’s not true and thinking we’re better than, and we’re more evolved, then is likely a blind spot that’s gonna hold you back. It’s one of those things that we’ve talked about in past episodes. The thing that you think you’re right about is likely the thing to investigate.

’cause it may unlock your biggest growth going forward. And so if you think, no, that’s not me, this may be one of those investigate.

In essence, we’re reenacting our biographies or even, you know, from generations we’re trying and then we’re trying to solve problems. Trust with new people in new settings and even people who jump from one role to the next, or they’ve switched companies a few times, they may start to recognize like, oh, there are some patterns.

I always tend to do this, or I tend to people, please. I tend to self sacrifice, or I tend to, you know, start conflict or I start to feel resentment. These are the things we need to pay attention to. ’cause that cycle will continue. When we don’t see it, don’t understand it, we can’t break it. We’re going to recreate a scenario where it seems like the only way out is to quit or is to do what I’ve done in the past.

So we talked about several of these inside in this episode. My real goal was to go a little bit deeper beyond the, oh, you know, the behaviors and the competencies and the skills, but to understand that there’s a lot more that goes on underneath the surface as to how and why people do what they do and show up in work relationships, you know, the, the way that they do some.

Some are easier for you and some are more difficult for you. Who those difficult people are for you by the way, is not who the difficult people are. For me, it’s also something to pay attention. You know, the things that trigger you are based on your story and your things going on under the hood.

And the same is true for me. So understanding this and building a little bit of awareness, if not a whole lot of awareness will be beneficial for you in your career. This, especially as a leader, you are in the business of people. 

Regardless of the industry that you’re in. This is about working with people understanding people, developing compassion and curiosity, and through that, a stronger connection. So I hope that this was some food for thought for you to think about, not just what motivates and drives you, what might be some of the patterns that you could relate to in this episode, but also.

What might be things that you find difficult, you find annoying, that you resent in the people that you work with, and developing some compassion, understanding that there’s a lot more that we don’t see. It’s a mask and we don’t sometimes see those cracks and, and get a bit of a glimpse of what might be going on behind the mask.

But oftentimes we don’t see. So for us to develop this understanding and then also being able to manage ourselves, manage our emotion, our response. Our interpretation of their behavior, which I’m gonna put some links in the show notes for episode that cover that aspect. But in this episode, we really wanted to talk about these themes, these insights that are important to know about.

Given that you’re working with people and as a leader, a lot of your success depends on how well you can form connections and relate to, and work with others. Thanks so much for tuning in. As always, if this was helpful, you have coworkers or friends who are working with some, someone they.

Seem difficult or could simply benefit from having this information as well. Please share it along. It means a lot. It is a way for The Manager Track podcast to continue to grow, to expand, to have a higher impact in this world with information that’s useful for professionals who are looking to lead and lead effectively and with that, I’ll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye.

If you enjoy this episode, then check out two other awesome resources to help you become a leader. People love to work with. This includes a free master class on how to successfully lead as a new manager. Check it at archova.org/ masterclass. 

The second resource is my best-selling book, the confident and competent new manager, how to quickly rise to success in your first leadership role. Check it out at archova.org/books or head on over to Amazon and grab your copy there.