When Your Direct Report Has More Experience Than You Do

00:00If you're managing someone who's older than you or who's been in your field longer than you've had a career, then I bet you've spent more energy worrying about how they see you than they've ever spent worrying about you. There's some data on that as well, and we're going to dig into what it means to manage someone older or more experienced as a direct report. My name is Ramona Shaw, and this is The Manager Track podcast.

In a CareerBuilder survey of more than 5,000 workers, 5% of people 55 and older said they had trouble taking direction from a younger boss, against 16% of workers age 25 to 34. So the group you might be bracing for actually reports fewer problems with this than you might think. And when experienced employees do get frustrated with a younger manager, the top complaints in a Harris Poll were that the boss acts like they know more, at about 55% of responses, and gets defensive when questioned, at 42%. Neither complaint is about age. This is a leadership skill question, because both are signals of a manager who's overcompensating.

01:00So here's a bit of a reframe. Leading someone with more experience comes down to really understanding who decides what, and on what basis.

At UC Berkeley, two researchers found that in problem-solving groups, influence went to the people who called out answers, not the ones who got them right. The point is that groups follow whoever gives the conversation structure, and that doesn't require you to know more than the 20-year veteran on your team. Creating structure, making the space and setting the frame, is more influential than just having the right answers. And don't get me wrong here, that is not a way to compensate for not having the knowledge. These are two separate buckets.

02:00In this episode, we're going to cover what to say when they box you in. We're going to talk about a four-part method for earning authority, the research behind it, and a team ritual that turns “We tried that before” into something more useful. So let's dig in and start with frame control.

There are two kinds of authority in the room. One is expertise. We just talked about this. It's the person who knows how the work gets done and what broke last time, so they have the institutional knowledge as well as the actual on-the-job expertise. The other type of authority is role: who sets priorities, makes the trade-offs, and answers for the outcome. Role usually holds more influence than expertise, and that message is really important here. As a leader managing someone who has more experience or is older than you, you are holding that second type of authority. They might be holding the first.

03:00The trouble starts when you mix them up. Overcompensating basically means you try to win on expertise, the other type of authority, correcting details and pushing your idea harder than it actually deserves, instead of fully leaning into your own type of authority.

The other pitfall for managers is to defer. Deferring means you hand over the role, your actual authority, and every decision becomes, “Well, what do you, the more experienced person, think we should do?”

Let's say a client of mine inherits a team, and one person on it has 20 years more in the field than my client does. This is fictional, but these types of examples happen all the time. Let's say Maria proposes a change, and her employee says in front of everyone, “Well, we tried that in 2019, and it really didn't work.” If she starts to defend, it's a contest she cannot win, because she was not there and he was.

04:00If she folds, the room watches who really runs the team. So what she needs to say instead is, “Oh, good. Then you know where it breaks. Walk me through what happened, and then we'll decide whether the conditions that caused it are still here, and if so, how we could navigate them.” In that moment, Maria credits the history and turns his experience into information while keeping the decision with her. She's keeping her authority around the role.

There are two more lines here to steal. “You've seen this more times than I have, and I want your read before I make the call” is a good way to honor their knowledge while making clear you're the decision-maker. Or, “You don't have to agree with me on this. Tell me what I'm missing, and then I'll decide.” Again, you hold your authority while you value their knowledge and expertise.

05:00Now, the number one behavior that kills your authority here is the justification loop. You say something, they push back, and you explain your decision again and again, trying to convince them. At that point, you're asking for their permission. You're asking so hard for them to validate you that everyone around you can hear it. You're obviously not saying, “Can you please validate me?” Those aren't the words that come out of your mouth, but those are the signals you send when you keep trying to convince and explain. So ask for their expertise before you decide. Don't ask for their permission, because then you're giving your own authority away.

So let's break this down step by step. Move one is to name what they know. Giving someone very specific credit for something they know reads as respect.

06:00Someone who is older than you or has more experience than you wants to be respected. We all would. You would too in their shoes, right? Being vague with your credit can read as flattery or nerves. “We're so grateful to have you on the team” is super vague. “Your understanding of this process is really useful here, and I want to fully understand it” is more specific. Or, “You ran the last two system migrations. I've run zero here at this organization. So on the cut-over plan, I'm going to lean on you.” That's very specific, and again, it demonstrates respect.

In your first real one-on-one, ask what previous managers misunderstood about this work, and write the answer down while they talk. This is all about understanding them and letting them know you're curious to learn from them and understand their perspective.

07:00That is all part one. If you've already had your first one-on-one but haven't had that conversation yet, and you know they've worked in this organization or field for many years under different leaders, ask them, “I'm curious, if you reflect back on the last 10 or 15 years, what are some of the things previous managers got wrong or misunderstood?” This can be a really insightful conversation, and again, a signal of respect. You're going to learn a lot.

Move two: name what you own. “You own how it gets built. I own what we prioritize, the trade-offs, and what I commit to my manager. When those things start to overlap, I'll tell you which one I'm deciding on.” Again, you're asserting your authority. Then, for the five decisions that come up over and over again, write down who decides, who gets consulted, and who just gets informed, and share it.

08:00Make sure there's a really clear understanding of the regular types of decisions, so the other person has examples. That earlier script can be hard to understand without specifics, so bring specific examples into the message.

Move three: consult before deciding out loud. Input goes in before the decision is made. After that, you say it once, with a reason, and that is no longer the moment to consult people. For example, “I've heard your concern about the timeline. We're going with the March date because of the client contract, and here's how we'll cover the risk that you raised.” One decision, one sentence, one reason. If you catch yourself reaching for a third reason and over-explaining the same thing again, trying to appease them, stop talking.

09:00Move four is to report back. This is about a track record, which builds credibility when people can see it. For example, “Three weeks ago, you flagged the vendor risk. You were right, and here's what I changed because of it.” And when you went against their advice and it worked, skip the victory lap. This is not one to rub in their faces. Respect is key here: “We went the other way on this one, and it held up, and I still want you pushing back the next time you see something you disagree with. That kind of dialogue is really important to me, and your perspective truly matters.” That tells someone, I decided against you and it was the right call, and I still really respect your input.

The defensive version is when someone uses their experience against you, correcting you in front of the team or going to your boss instead of coming to you. In those situations, take the point seriously in the room, then move the process conversation out of it.

10:00I'm going to give you a lot of language here. “You might be right on the substance. Let's take it apart after the meeting.” When you notice someone is trying to make you look bad in a meeting, not someone with an opposing opinion, but someone who's coming at you personally, move that outside the meeting. Don't engage. Then in private, name the pattern: “When you correct me like this in front of the team, the team hears two people arguing over authority. I want your pushback, but not like this. Here's what would work better for me.” That might be raising it one-on-one, or it might be about the tone or how it was framed.

11:00If it keeps happening after that, it's turning into a performance conversation, because they're no longer respecting your authority as the manager, and you don't want to tolerate that for too long. The longer you tolerate it, the more acceptable it becomes, and the team sees it too.

When the pushback is vague, make it specific. “Which part won't work? The timeline, the tool, or the people?” Let them explain.

Another thing that helps: before any decision that involves this person, run a few questions through your head. Whose knowledge does this need? Whose decision is this? Am I asking before or after the decision? And what will I report back, and when, to that person and to the team? When you follow what we've just covered and go through these four questions, you'll make the right choice, and you'll be intentional about holding your authority and respecting their expertise.

12:00Now, quick pause here. If this is resonating and you want to take it all the way, because you know your leadership skills are what will drive your career going forward, I'd like to tell you about the Leadership Accelerator. This is a 12-week program we run for new and early-stage managers, people who are good at their jobs and now need to become good at leading. We go deep on these types of things: setting clear decision rights, having direct conversations with people who have more tenure or expertise than you, giving feedback, coaching, difficult conversations, how to delegate well, and the list goes on. It's a cohort-based program that combines live coaching and on-demand training with one-on-one support, so that what you learn actually sticks and you apply it week over week over the course of 90 days. Check out the link in the description to learn more.

So with that, back to the episode.

13:00Let's look at an example. Say you're doing a mid-year review with someone who's been in the field longer than you've been working, and you tell them, “I'd like to see you get more comfortable with the new reporting system.” From your point of view, that is a development comment. From their point of view, someone who hasn't done this job, or hasn't done it as often as they have, just told them they're not doing well. And “get more comfortable” sounds a bit like you're rusty, or it's too hard for you. If you try to argue with their perspective now, this is likely when the whole thing escalates and misunderstandings start to unfold.

So here is what I suggest instead. First, mirror their experience without agreeing it's accurate, and then stop talking. If they say, “I don't think that's right. I've done this many, many times,” you can say, “I think what I said landed as ‘the new manager thinks I'm behind,’ or ‘the new manager thinks I don't know what I'm doing.’ Is that close?” With that, you're addressing the elephant in the room.

14:00You're not trying to tiptoe around it. You're also not claiming to know for sure what they're thinking, because you don't. You're offering your read on how they might have interpreted it, and then you ask, “Did I get that right? Am I reading this right?”

The mistake is skipping this step and going straight to explaining. Explaining first asks them to leave their perspective before you acknowledge they have a different read on what you said. So first acknowledge that you understand how they might be reading it or experiencing it.

After that, you can share your own part. “I can see how I made it sound that way. What I'm worried about is that the system is where leadership looks for our numbers, and right now your work is invisible there.” After acknowledging, you explain further and get more specific about what you meant. If you can, create some common ground, like, “Look, we're both trying to make this the best solution possible for the client,” or, “to make this as smooth as possible for our internal users,” whatever that might be. Then get really specific about the goal you're aiming for.

15:00Then look forward while distinguishing the two roles again. In this case, you could say, “You know better than anyone here which numbers matter. Help me set up the dashboard so it shows the right things, and let's check in two weeks from now.” You demonstrate respect for their knowledge without moving the standard. You were clear: you are really good at this, the problem is it's not coming through, and we can do better here. You held that standard, and you gave them direction.

16:00So first, you empathize with where they're coming from and understand their perspective. Second, you're specific about what you mean, using common ground and shared goals. And third, you give that respect again, making sure they understand their role, while you hold the authority of yours by saying, “Let's review this again in two weeks,” because you're the one setting the priorities, the timelines, and the frame.

Another quick trick is to use a code word. Code words are great. A lot of teams who work really well together have codified language, so everyone knows exactly what someone means when they say a certain word. Scar tissue is one of those. When we call something scar tissue, it means something we've tried in the past and are still recovering from, because of how it failed, how difficult it was, or how much time and money we lost. So instead of saying, “We tried that before, and I don't think it's a good idea,” someone might say, “We do have some scar tissue with that.”

17:00New rule: when any of us has been burned by something before, we call it scar tissue. You get some uninterrupted time, maybe two minutes or so, to tell us what actually happened. Then we decide together whether the conditions are still around, or whether things have changed and what we're trying to do now has a better chance of success.

Everyone gets to use it, including you. This is not a rule for one person. It's a team-wide social norm. Someone calls scar tissue, and the response is, “Good. Tell us about it.” You're not being rejected, and it doesn't mean you're against the change. Tell us about it, and then let's look at whether it still holds true. That's the immediate next step.

18:00Now, a quick thing on mindset. Here's what people don't say out loud: some experienced people on your team will never fully accept that you should have this job. This is the 5% we talked about earlier in the statistics. A lot of new managers spend months running a legitimacy trial in their heads, where every meeting is evidence and every eye roll goes into the record. You can't win this with someone who decided before you walked in that you're not the person they should report to. The organization already made that call, so stop litigating your promotion.

It's going to be difficult, but when your own insecurity hooks onto their opinion, that is not useful. You're giving them too much credit, and you're doing yourself a disservice. Ask a question you can actually answer: “Is this person doing a good job, and am I helping them do it?”

If the tension is out in the open, you can say, “I know I'm probably not who you expected in this seat. I'm not going to try to talk you into changing your mind right away. Judge me on the next six months, and tell me directly when I'm getting it wrong. My goal here is to elevate the team, elevate you, and support you in your career goals as well.” Period. You don't need to do more explaining.

19:00Also give them real authority on purpose. Pick one area where their expertise is strong and hand them the call, with clear edges, holding your authority and giving them theirs. Like, “On the technical approach, you decide. I'll back it in rooms you're not in. Loop me in on anything that affects timeline or budget.” That's something you'd say about a particular project. I wouldn't hand it out as a blank card for all things, but on a particular project, it's a really good move. You can only give away authority that you hold, so doing it deliberately shows the team where authority sits.

As an individual contributor, you build credibility by being the person with the answer. As a leader, you build it by deciding who should have the answer and making sure it gets used.

20:00So when this person pushes back next, will you defend, fold, or ask for the history and then decide? How much of your energy goes into proving you deserve the role, and how much into actually doing it? A year from now, what do you want them to say about how you used what they know?

If this was useful, please subscribe. We're going to add a few additional episodes to the show notes that might make great part twos on this topic. Remember, their experience is an asset on your team. Leading them well, and doing so deliberately, even when it's challenging for your ego, is really important. That's what creates win-win situations for everyone involved. And with that, I'll see you next week with another episode of The Manager Track podcast. Bye for now.

21:00If you enjoyed this episode, check out two other resources to help you become a leader people love to work with. The first is a free masterclass on how to successfully lead as a new manager. Check it out at archova.org/masterclass. The second is my bestselling book, The Confident and Competent New Manager: How to Rapidly Rise to Success in Your First Leadership Role. Check it out at archova.org/books, or head over to Amazon and grab your copy there.

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability.